"Beast of the East" WMSR 1309!

Went to Wally Word today. And as I usually do when I'm alone, I check out tools, auto, electronics, and magazines.

And there, shining like a star in the night was this... A special edition of "Trains" magazine, called "Big Steam is Back".  And  there on the front a photo of 844, and a blurb, title of a story in the magazine. An article about C&O 1309 called (and rightly so, IMO) "Beast of the East".

In the article it is explained much better than i've been trying to do about what the 1309 will mean to the Western Maryland Scenic and the Cumberland area.  Why 1309 was selected, how and why the C&O rode her into the ground, and why it's worth rebuilding and to run on the WMSR.

When done, it is explained in the story, she'll be the largest articulated locomotive operating in the U.S. Not only that, but she'll need no railroad to "let" her on their rails, it will have it's own railroad, and can be seen almost any weekend!

Ed

If and I hope she's running next summer I'm planning a visit next aug.  should be fun

We in Maryland can't wait!  For those of you who are not familiar with the 1309, here's two views when it was on display at the B&O Museum.

WOW!  I can't wait to see her under steam.  How are they going to turn her around in Frostburg?  I don't think the turntable is big enough.

wild mary posted:

WOW!  I can't wait to see her under steam.  How are they going to turn her around in Frostburg?  I don't think the turntable is big enough.

Sure is. Don't you think they would've thought about that before sinking $1.8 million into it?

I believe that question has been asked, and 1309 will fit the turntable.

I read the article last night-good explanation of the project. I am tired of the negative comments and the nay-sayers on this project.  Big job, of course it costs $$ and takes time. Be grateful, hope to see her run.

Found this info:

"Our table is 100-feet-long, and the engine is 98-feet-8-inches over the pulling faces. Its wheelbase is 88 feet-6-inches, so yes, it fits. What we’re more curious about is the 22-degree curve that leads from the turntable into the passing siding at Frostburg. The engine’s maximum curvature is 20 degrees so that will be an interesting test trip. "

https://www.trainorders.com/di.../read.php?10,4346139

An update video was just uploaded to WMSR's Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/Wmsrs...ts/10155509307362970

Who's doing the axle work? Strasburg? 

superwarp1 posted:

Who's doing the axle work? Strasburg? 

Probably. What is REALLY interesting is, there is a photo from February 2016, posted on RYPN by Kelly Anderson, of all the driver sets sitting outside in the weather, after AFTER having been returned from the Strasburg Machine Shops with all new tires. Although Strasburg was contracted ONLY for wheel machining and new tires, someone from the Western Maryland Scenic could have asked the Strasburg folks to inspect the axle bearings and crankpins for possible distress while all six driver sets were in their shop. Whether that was done or not, really doesn't matter now, after the six driver pairs have sat out in the weather since February 2016! Seems a bit unusual, doesn't it?

Kelly Anderson posted:

I raised that question more than once before and during their stay at the SRC shops, and was assured that the crankpins and journals were all in good condition and needed no work.

Imagine THAT!

Here ya go, Hot... HELP!

Kelly Anderson posted:

I raised that question more than once before and during their stay at the SRC shops, and was assured that the crankpins and journals were all in good condition and needed no work.

If it wasn't so sad it would be funny the wheels have to make a second trip out there.  The expense of getting them there and back must be huge.

superwarp1 posted:

Kelly Anderson posted:

I raised that question more than once before and during their stay at the SRC shops, and was assured that the crankpins and journals were all in good condition and needed no work.

If it wasn't so sad it would be funny the wheels have to make a second trip out there.  The expense of getting them there and back must be huge.

Not really. A single flatbed tractor & trailer capable of handle such weights, wouldn't THAT "huge", plus the distance from the WMSR shop to the Strasburg shop isn't that great either. An unnecessary expense; yes.

SJC posted:

wild mary posted:

WOW!  I can't wait to see her under steam.  How are they going to turn her around in Frostburg?  I don't think the turntable is big enough.

Sure is. Don't you think they would've thought about that before sinking $1.8 million into it?

superwarp1 posted:

Who's doing the axle work? Strasburg? 

According to an article posted in the other thread by CSX Fan the work seems to be going to Tennessee.

hullmat991 posted:

 

superwarp1 posted:

Who's doing the axle work? Strasburg? 

According to an article posted in the other thread by CSX Fan the work seems to be going to Tennessee.

 

Since Mr. Garner states that there is "only one company in the United States" able to perform work on steam locomotives, that is certified by the FRA, I wonder if the Strasburg Rail Road has been sending all their steam locomotive work to that same place in Tennessee? I know for a fact that SP 4449 was NOT sent to any company in Tennessee for her 15 year boiler work, nor any time we have her axle journals refinished. Then there is the UP 844 and Milwaukee 261, neither of which were shipped to Tennessee, for either boiler work nor axle/wheel work. The UP has generally contracted their wheel/crankpin work to the Strasburg shop (all the drivers from 4014 are currently at Strasburg now).

I wondered about that statement when I read it in the magazine. Last time I was at Strasburg they had UP drivers there for work.

Check this out. LINK

And yet another one, read about the drivers sitting in front of the diesel. SECOND LINK

Ed

Ed Mullan posted:

Check this out. LINK

Ok then, how does Strasburg do their equipment? They sure as the devil don't send the wheels & axles to TVRM. Also, the crew of the Milwaukee Road 261 didn't send the drives from their locomotive to the TVRM (they were machined right there in the twin cities area). In my opinion, that is false advertising on the part of TVRM.

And yet another one, read about the drivers sitting in front of the diesel. SECOND LINK

Yes, those are two of the four driver sets from 844, after the wheel sliding & flattening "event" down in Texas. Due to the emergency of the situation two driver sets were shipped to Strasburg, and the other two were shipped to TVRM. As a result of the two different wheel/tire tread machining processes between Strasburg and TVRM, there were very noticeable tread finish differences between the the four pairs of drivers. Such is the reason that UP has generally always had their steam locomotive driver work don at Strasburg, i.e. 844, 3985, and now 4014. Just my opinion but, Strasburg does a much better job.

Ed

Done with this one, too.

Ed

Hindsight is usually 20/20, but foresight has unknown unknowns. Having restored a few antique vehicles, I now about unanticipated popup problems. Give the folks who are getting their hands dirty on the 1309 a break. There is way too much negativism about the 1309!

I hope the WMSRR cleans up the front end a bit.  The 734 has a very clean look.  With 1309 I understand the double air compressors mounted out front, I can even get over what appears to be air filter housings above/inboard of the compressors, but those high number boards sticking out to the middle of nowhere just strike me as hideous.  Some small marker lights or extra headlights would be okay, but I really hope they do something.  Being and articulated certainly brings extra mechanical challenges, but she is going into tourist service service now, looks are important!

Just mho

As much as I would like to be able to see any articulated steam engine running. I do not know if that will ever be able to happen.

Though Maryland would probably be closer, to me, than any other articulated steam engine that may get restored or is in the process of being restored. I don't think I could get my wife to agree to see anything like that in person, unless there is some historical place that she wants to visit around where the WMSRR is located, she probably won't want anything to do with it.

This might be one of things I will only be able to look at and see via the internet through photos and videos. Though I was looking on the WMSRR website, they are hoping to have it running by Fall of this year. 

I realized after I typed up my post it didn't come across very clear to what I was saying so I edited it slightly to say closer to me, which makes a lot more sense then what I originally said.

Hot Water posted:

hullmat991 posted:

 

superwarp1 posted:

Who's doing the axle work? Strasburg? 

According to an article posted in the other thread by CSX Fan the work seems to be going to Tennessee.

 

Since Mr. Garner states that there is "only one company in the United States" able to perform work on steam locomotives, that is certified by the FRA, I wonder if the Strasburg Rail Road has been sending all their steam locomotive work to that same place in Tennessee? I know for a fact that SP 4449 was NOT sent to any company in Tennessee for her 15 year boiler work, nor any time we have her axle journals refinished. Then there is the UP 844 and Milwaukee 261, neither of which were shipped to Tennessee, for either boiler work nor axle/wheel work. The UP has generally contracted their wheel/crankpin work to the Strasburg shop (all the drivers from 4014 are currently at Strasburg now).

Given the number of odd things in that article, I'd chalk it up to a clueless reporter who is totally ignorant of steam in general totally screwing up what was said and/or quotes totally out of context.  No big surprise.  It happens...

jhz563 posted:

I hope the WMSRR cleans up the front end a bit.  The 734 has a very clean look.  With 1309 I understand the double air compressors mounted out front, I can even get over what appears to be air filter housings above/inboard of the compressors, but those high number boards sticking out to the middle of nowhere just strike me as hideous.  Some small marker lights or extra headlights would be okay, but I really hope they do something.  Being and articulated certainly brings extra mechanical challenges, but she is going into tourist service service now, looks are important!

Just mho

She was built to haul tonnage not look pretty, but I do get your point...

She is missing her bell, which partially addresses  "those high number boards sticking out to the middle of nowhere"

jhz563 posted:

I hope the WMSRR cleans up the front end a bit.  The 734 has a very clean look.  With 1309 I understand the double air compressors mounted out front, I can even get over what appears to be air filter housings above/inboard of the compressors, but those high number boards sticking out to the middle of nowhere just strike me as hideous.  Some small marker lights or extra headlights would be okay, but I really hope they do something.  Being and articulated certainly brings extra mechanical challenges, but she is going into tourist service service now, looks are important!

Just mho

Extra headlights?  Something like this perhaps?

Might as well ask for a diamond stack, too.

I'm sure 1309 will acquit itself in the looks department quite well once fully restored, numberboards and all.  The 1309 was an attractive locomotive in a brutish sort of way.

Rusty

jhz563 posted:

I hope the WMSRR cleans up the front end a bit.  The 734 has a very clean look.  With 1309 I understand the double air compressors mounted out front, I can even get over what appears to be air filter housings above/inboard of the compressors, but those high number boards sticking out to the middle of nowhere just strike me as hideous.  Some small marker lights or extra headlights would be okay, but I really hope they do something.  Being and articulated certainly brings extra mechanical challenges, but she is going into tourist service service now, looks are important!

Just mho

You gotta embrace the Ugly...1309 will be awesome! 

when she has smoke coming outta the stack,steam outta the cylinders,and pounding down the rails she'll be a beauty!

Jim Harrington posted:

jhz563 posted:

I hope the WMSRR cleans up the front end a bit.  The 734 has a very clean look.  With 1309 I understand the double air compressors mounted out front, I can even get over what appears to be air filter housings above/inboard of the compressors, but those high number boards sticking out to the middle of nowhere just strike me as hideous.  Some small marker lights or extra headlights would be okay, but I really hope they do something.  Being and articulated certainly brings extra mechanical challenges, but she is going into tourist service service now, looks are important!

Just mho

She was built to haul tonnage not look pretty, but I do get your point...

She is missing her bell, which partially addresses  "those high number boards sticking out to the middle of nowhere"

Okay, I grant you the bell will help fill in the gaping maw at the front of this beast.  And I very much look forward to see this machine in action, but that face belongs on the south end of a north bound coal drag. 

In all seriousness, when it comes time for finishing touches and polish, I hope something is done to make it a bit more photo friendly.

I'll be watching to see if they keep the "smoke eaters" along the firebox sides.  At least from my point of view, pretty unique to C&O in the East.  

Bob

bbunge posted:

I'll be watching to see if they keep the "smoke eaters" along the firebox sides.  At least from my point of view, pretty unique to C&O in the East.  

Bob

I was wondering about that too. I bet that they don't but time will tell. 

J 611 posted:

bbunge posted:

I'll be watching to see if they keep the "smoke eaters" along the firebox sides.  At least from my point of view, pretty unique to C&O in the East.  

Bob

I was wondering about that too. I bet that they don't but time will tell. 

In my opinion, those "Overfire Jets" could be VERY useful & beneficial climbing that steep grade, on the WMSR. 

But those pumps in the front gives it that C&O look.

Dominic Mazoch posted:

But those pumps in the front gives it that C&O look.

Or Great Northern.

Just announced on FB, the WM is selling tickets for a short train ride over the  to the shop for a shop tour.  See not even steamed up yet, and she's already making money. 

Hot Water posted:

J 611 posted:

bbunge posted:

I'll be watching to see if they keep the "smoke eaters" along the firebox sides.  At least from my point of view, pretty unique to C&O in the East.  

Bob

I was wondering about that too. I bet that they don't but time will tell. 

In my opinion, those "Overfire Jets" could be VERY useful & beneficial climbing that steep grade, on the WMSR. 

Agreed. But we will see if they're willing to put in the time and effort.

I think this is the third tour. I was on the second. Click on photos for the big 'uns.

Little No. 7 will take us over in two passenger cars.

Mr Garner speaks to the folks

Here is the nicely redone tender

Have a look at the new cab

You get a good look at 1309's boiler and parts!

I'm going to make every effort to be there this weekend. I like the tour, and the money helps the WMSR.

Ed

Hot Water posted:

Dominic Mazoch posted:

But those pumps in the front gives it that C&O look.

Or Great Northern.

Or the front end of an SP AC-9!!