More questions about Western Maryland Scenic and C&O 1309? We’ve got answers!

Chesapeake & Ohio 2-6-6-2 No. 1309.

Earlier this month, we asked Western Maryland Scenic Railroad General Superintendent Mike Gresham 10 questions about the popular railroad between Cumberland, Md., and Frostburg, Md., and its groundbreaking project, the restoration of Chesapeake & Ohio 2-6-6-2 No. 1309. The railroad’s 1916 2-8-0 No. 734 is well known, too. Mike generously consented to answer eight more questions from our Trains Facebook page. Here’s what he told us.

1. From Brian Hedrick: Has expanding the scenic train trackage ever been considered and is it even possible? Such as continuing up the Great Alleghany Passage trail right of way or deeper into West Virginia?

A: The former Cumberland and Pennsylvania Frostburg station makes a good arrival and departure point for us, and with structures built across the former right-of-way on the west end of the Frostburg tunnel, westward expansion is not practical via the C&P. In the future, we are looking at having more functions at our Frostburg station to tie in with our evening trains and possibly our day trains as well. In theory, it would be possible to extend the operation along the original Western Maryland right-of-way toward Connellsville, Pa., along the Great Allegany Passage bike trail, but most of our research shows that people are looking for a one-hour trip enroute to a destination. Because of this, while expansion would be possible, it would likely go against what most of our customers want in an excursion. As for the line going towards Baltimore, the right of way has been turned into a bike trail through Knobbley Tunnel, so expansion to the east is not practical, either. CSXT owns the property that used to be the Western Maryland’s Carpendale Yard where the Western Maryland Railway ran to Elkins, W.Va., but there are environmental concerns that would make development of that property complicated. Certainly, it’s not impossible, but more complicated.

2. From Jim Vanmeter: It looks like 1309 has the interest of many, including myself, but No. 734 has the hearts of many too. With that said, how long will No. 734 be down?

A: The biggest issue with getting No. 734 back onto the rails is funding two major steam locomotive rebuilds in close timeline to each other. We at Western Maryland Scenic view No. 1309 as more critical to the operation as she will have the power to take all but our heaviest consists up the hill unassisted, which will reduce our overall operating costs. We expect that No. 1309 will be able to pay her “out-of-pocket” (direct cost to the railroad after grants and donations are accounted for) rebuild costs in 2 to 3 years with the additional ridership that we expect No. 1309 to draw and through reduced operating costs. We would also like to establish a trust fund for No. 1309 so that her future rebuilds are financially planned for as well. After that, we will start rebuilding No. 734 as she’s a good size to handle our weekday trains versus operating our GP30s. Having 734 rebuilt will also provide us with back-up steam-power in case of mechanical problems and provide flexibility for special operations like photo freights. Bottom line, No. 734 will be rebuilt, but it will take a few years after No. 1309 begins operation.

3. From Seth Michael Crawford: CSX, the Class I freight railroad there in Cumberland, hasn’t been much into steam. Recently, the company and Trains magazine funded the cosmetic restoration of Atlantic Coast Line 4-6-2 No. 1504 in Jacksonville, Fla., Do you think No. 1309 could change the company’s mind on this?

A: When we look at steam policies at Class I and regional railroads, we have to look at their core business: moving freight. Being in Cumberland and within sight of the former Baltimore & Ohio mainline, it is obvious that traffic is up. Now consider what is going on across the rest of the system and how trains are slotted into a movement window to keep traffic flowing across the system. Now, throw a special operation like a steam excursion onto a heavy traffic mainline with passengers who expect to take priority over freight and it’s easy to see why Class I railroads aren’t fond of excursions. Add in the litigious nature in this country, and there’s another major concern for a Class I railroad like CSX. While I hope to someday see steam marching across CSX, I don’t think No. 1504 or No. 1309 will be what changes their position. What may help those days to come back are letting people like CSX CEO Michael Ward know how much their support to such organizations means to you and your community. It’s difficult to put a price on public relations, but having 100 thank you letters show up on a CEO’s desk saying how much the support is appreciated is something that gets attention. CSX donated the use of one flatcar and No. 1309’s move, and Norfolk Southern helped spread the word about 1309’s restoration.   Both have been supportive of the effort and the Western Maryland Scenic in general.  We appreciate their help, and I hope that the general public appreciates their help, also. 

4. From Eli Akerib: Will the 1309 pull photo freights?

A: Absolutely. When the news came out about our acquisition and restoration of No. 1309, we received our first inquiry for a photo charter within 24 hours. Operating No. 1309 on photo freights is a major reason why we are trying to restore our freight car fleet, also.  Our freight car fleet consists of four ballast cars, two gondolas, two open hoppers, and one covered hopper.  With the help of the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad Foundation, the volunteer division of the tourist railroad, we’ve recently repainted one of the gondolas into a Pennsylvania Railroad paint scheme.  We are planning to repaint our second gondola into a Nickel Plate Railroad paint scheme.  Interestingly enough, the PRR gondola was specifically requested to be used during filming for the Meg Ryan production of “Ithaca,” which is projected for release in 2015, wherein the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad will have a small, supporting role.  The four ballast cars are currently painted Western Maryland, but could stand to be repainted.  We’ll also be repainting the open and covered hoppers as time permits.  Eventually, we’d like to add to our freight car fleet with some basic 40-foot box cars, but that will have to wait until things slow down just a bit.  Photo freights will be an important part of No. 1309’s operations, just as they have been with No. 734.   

5. From Jim Lipnitz: Has progress on the two Everett Railroad steam locomotives, 2-6-0 No. 11 or 2-8-0 No. 38, both contract repair jobs, slowed work on No. 1309? Will they be tested pulling trains to Frostburg once either of the engines is finished? And do you have a timeframe of when they could be completed?

A: We have only been working on No. 11 for Everett, and Western Maryland Scenic is certainly getting busy with our own work. However, working with President Alan Maples, we are making progress on No. 11 as well. As for testing after completion, that will be up to the Everett Railroad and Maples, but we would certainly work with him if he wants to run them up to Frostburg. With regard to timeline, I can’t give you a completion timeline as both organizations are working together to get #11 finished as soon as possible.

6. From Drew Guild: If you did anything different at start up, what would you have done differently?

A: Every manager in any business will execute their responsibilities different than others and it’s always easy to look back and question about why was something done this way or that. I arrived at the WMSR on April 15, 2013, and the operation has changed even since I’ve arrived, much more so over the past 26 years. The world is a different place than 26 years ago; consumer tastes change, vacation preferences change, and we have to update our offerings to keep up with those changing tastes. Operationally, I wish we had much of the track that has been taken up, especially at Frostburg station so we could operate more trains during our peak October and December seasons. Another thing I’d like to have is a wider variety of first generation diesel power and some of the locomotives that Western Maryland Scenic was offered over the years. One example was a set of Western Maryland F-units. I don’t know why they weren’t taken, but I would have liked to have them for various types of operations.

One thing I talk about when I speak in public is that an operation like the Western Maryland Scenic is a marginal business idea at best. Why? What are two things that most railroads tried to get rid of the fastest? Steam power and passengers! What are we trying to make a business in? Steam power and passengers! But, here we are so we are going to make the business model work. About 30 percent of our ridership comes to ride behind steam. That is a significant portion of our ridership. However, it also costs approximately twice as much to operate and maintain steam vs diesel for us, more when we have to add diesels due to consist length. Now, add in the higher maintenance costs, and making the numbers work starts to get pretty tough. I think F-units would have been a good draw and are much cheaper to operate. Several good operations are diesel only and do well. I think in part is how you set peoples expectation as a business; true for any business, not just the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad.

7. From Raymond Rase: What difficulties, if any, has the partnership with the adjacent bike trail posed for your group?

A: In general, the people who use the trail are very respectful of the railroad. There are people who illegally ride ATVs and other powered vehicles on the trail. Some of those riders ride on the ballast, which damages our ballast profile and regulation. There are always also those that complain about “that dirty, smelly train that should just go away,” but we are here to stay. In general, the trail users like the train. I remember a couple from Germany last year who didn’t know about the train, and they were surprised when No. 734 made her very noisy appearance at Frostburg after cresting our 2.75 percent grade coming into the station. When we were turning No. 734 at Frostburg on the turntable, they kept filming the locomotive so we turned the engine a second time so they could keep filming. After turning the locomotive twice, they came down to talk after most others had left for lunch or to visit other attractions in Frostburg. Talking with them, they were just enthralled with the locomotive, the turntable, and the operation in general. I asked them if they would like to ride with me on the turntable to get a different view. They loved it! They came back to ride with us. Overall, the trail has been good for business.

8. From Warren Hice: In having a family heritage with the Cumberland & Pennsylvania railroad,  specifically the C&P shops in Mount Savage, I had hoped that there would be some representation of that local railroad on the Western Maryland Scenic.

A: An excellent question. The C&P is a very real part of our operation and one of our Board of Directors, W. Robert Flanigan, is also the Mayor of Frostburg and comes from a C&P family.  Needless to say, the C&P is near and dear to our hearts. Unfortunately, there just isn’t much left of the C&P as far as equipment that can handle the passengers, tonnage, and grades that we currently operate. Just like I would have preferred a Western Maryland Railway locomotive, the fact is that what is left just doesn’t fit our needs. For 2015, we are trying to develop a walking tour around the Frostburg station area that talks about the history of the C&P in the region to help explain why the railroad (any railroad) was important to daily life. We have also had some discussion with the Mount Savage Historical Society about the possibilities of taking tours of the area and to show where the first rail in the U.S. was rolled as part of our excursion experience. However, we have to figure out how to accomplish the tours as well as how to pay for them. Lastly, the ghost of the C&P makes itself known on a regular basis. Earlier this year, we had a landslide that took out a substantial portion of an embankment after an abandoned mine caved-in. That landslide came very close to shutting us down for two months while emergency repairs were completed. Working with the Bureau of Mines, it took 6 weeks and 600 tons of rock to stabilize the embankment, with permanent repairs coming in 2016. Our track and operations crews watch that area very closely for any signs of ground shift. Yes, the ghost of the C&P and its coal-mining heritage is very much with us today.